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Post by lynneth on Jan 6, 2016 21:19:41 GMT 1
Sounds good to me. Idea for the HP. Have it so you gain or lose an amount based on race like in D&D? with an increase max of 5. So for example a Goblin would start on 2-3HP but a Tauren would start somewhere in the region of 6-8? Maybe adds too much complexity, but something along the lines of racial traits could be an idea too, to give people more reasons to think before stat dumping.
Wouldn't be hard to write up a racial traits list.
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Post by teffany on Jan 6, 2016 21:53:06 GMT 1
Hmm... that would require that goblind would be better at other things and tauren worse at other things to even it up. Cause otherwise there would be fewer reasons to actually play weak characters. Better to fix the difference with perks or.. a perhaps a race perk? But that might also add too much complexity..hmm..
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Post by Maiyka on Jan 6, 2016 21:55:05 GMT 1
I however think that basing the HP depending on race a bit..hm, I don't know, some might not want to deal with the fact that they have 3HP compared to someone of 6HP merely because of their race. What could happen is that we'd only get Tauren, Orc and Blood elves as an example, simply because they also desire more HP, but that is me thinking deeper upon the matter but it's a plausible outcome. To me it's also a bit more complexity, and perhaps we should go for something ''Stupid simple'' in similair ways to that.
HOWEVER! Another thing we can do, is base the HP off of what kind of armor ones character wears, cloth wearer has 5HP as for example, leather 6, mail 7 and so on?
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Post by lynneth on Jan 6, 2016 21:58:49 GMT 1
Could do....alternatively, as Teff said, just give alternate perks to compensate.
So...goblins might get more dex than a Tauren and a Tauren gets less Dex etc.
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Post by teffany on Jan 6, 2016 22:01:38 GMT 1
That or make the Hp wary depending on your endurance? for every 5 or 10 or X you get one additional hp?
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Post by Maiyka on Jan 6, 2016 22:06:33 GMT 1
Well, any stats we use should all be equally "good" to have, I think. Simply so we don't have to worry too much about value and can just get a representation of our characters that we're happy with. That's why I broke things down the way I did a couple of posts ago, because all of Strength, Dexterity, Endurance, Intelligence and Spellpower represents a bonus you can get to your combat roll, AS WELL as any more RP-related rolls the DM chooses to do. The weakness of this is that you might lack a stat such as "Perception", but that seems pointless to have if the only thing it would do is help your character out during awareness rolls for your surroundings. I would propose the following: Hit Points: We leave this with a base value of 5 for all characters. If more hit points are to be allocated, then you need to take perks for it. ALTERNATIVELY, I suppose each additional Hit Point could cost more than just 1 skill-point to allocate. But if you don't put at least some kind of restriction on it, then Hit Points would be the prime target for stats dumping into. (Who cares if you don't get any roll bonuses, if you've got like 20 HP!) The other stats to include would be as I listed above: Strength: Weapon damage + physical exertion rolls Dexterity: Weapon accuracy + nimbleness rolls Endurance: Resistance to damage + any other toughness rolls Intelligence: Spell Success + Languages, puzzles, etc Willpower: Spell Damage + Mental resistance rolls All these stats would have a default starting value of 1, and then you give people, say, 40 points to spend. Perhaps a little less or a little more. Then add perks to that, which further help make your character more unique. I would argue for unique perks, tailored after the characters themselves, so just leave the player to decide what they want and then an officer can oversee it just to ensure there will be no balancing issues. This leaves enemies to have three different stats: Attack, Defense and HP. This is basically the same as every other roll system out there, so that's nothing too crazy or scary. Trying all of this out is probably a good idea of course, but just to set us in the right direction, how does this sound? With this the player is still allowed to assign their points to whereever they wish, meaning that a Tauren can still put a lot of points on DEX as for example, although that's not very...well, Tauren monks maybe but Taurens are rather the robust character so the natural choices would be such as STR but it's the ''what if'' case. And as for the Hit Points, yeah, restriction ofc , it would be a lot of BS if someone put ALL of their points in that stat, we'd say no to that, that would not be an acceptable sheet. I get the idea of playing on races, but that might be grabbing too much on realism, hence why I suggested going by armor instead and give the players NO MATTER WHAT RACE an equal chance. Because honestly a Goblin clad in Plate would stand a better chance against blunt force than a blood elf in cloth armor. Or well, this is how I see it, and my reasons for why the ''going by race'' HP idea doesn't sit coompletely right with me. |
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Post by Sinathael on Jan 6, 2016 22:14:32 GMT 1
xD Right. I love the ideas, but I think this is getting a little too complicated now guys. If someone plays a tauren and really wants them to be tanky, then they can always get a perk called "Big bad cow warrior" or something, and perhaps on account of their race, that might help persuade the officers to allow the perk to make more of a difference than it perhaps would with a goblin. But if someone were to play, say, a Tauren priest, I don't see them necessarily being that much tougher than their goblin equivalent. Before race or gender we're all individuals, and saying that just because you play a certain race, you HAVE to have more HP or less Dex or whatever, is a little bit like saying that males should have a default strength bonus over females who instead get intelligence for instance. I just don't see the need for it myself. =P
The armor idea is some good thinking outside the box, but then how do you treat a character who wears a mix of armor? Sin's boots are supposed to be plate, his arm guards leather, and so on. It also gives an advantage to people rolling mail and plate characters, without compensating clothies and leather-lovers (giggity). So, yeah, I would still argue that this is what perks are for.
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Post by Maiyka on Jan 6, 2016 22:22:03 GMT 1
Hm, true true, well, it would be taken into account what armor the character wears most of then. It's just me tossing in the idea which we have in TCH, but then again the same idea might not work in every place. But so far I like the idea that the stats gives a BONUS to the rolls, then that ever individual can decide if they'd like to attune their perks with the stats or make their perks in similarity to how we had it in GB.
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Post by Sinathael on Jan 6, 2016 22:35:14 GMT 1
Fair enough! Like I said, it's a nice, "out of the box" idea. But nothing stops me from giving Kayrellion a perk called "Armoured Grunt" and just rack up a couple of HP's that way. So if people want their choice of armor to matter beyond pure looks, then there is definitely room for that to happen already.
But I have made my case. You may now discard this and nonsense if you don't like it. =P
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Post by teffany on Jan 6, 2016 22:49:35 GMT 1
How many percs per character? 3? all from the beginning to make the cahracters special form the start? or jsut one and then gain more as you develeop the character Ic?
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Post by Sinathael on Jan 6, 2016 23:13:54 GMT 1
2 or 3 seems reasonable. Perhaps depending on just how powerful that character is supposed to be.
That's actually the thing I like the most with the Stats + Perks combo, because it has the potential of solving the issue I brought up in my first post in this thread, since the strength of our characters is no longer based on levels, but on how we choose to build them. My issue in that post was that I wanted a system in which I could reflect Sin's and Kay's relative "Power Level" compared to one another, without having to do the endless experience grinds to level up within the "guild system", at which point new members are STILL hopelessly left behind the characters that have been in the guild for a long time. Not entirely fair, in my opinion!
For instance, let's say we all get an equal amount of points to distribute on stats… That's fair enough, and at that point, Sin and Kay should still be about even. But after that, let's say I only feel Kay can be justified to have ONE perk, but Sin can be justified to have a whooping number of three. Hopefully Cyr and Mai would be fine with that if I give a good enough motivation for it, and then the type of perks I choose could help put Sin up a bit without being ridiculously overpowered. Maybe to reflect his 800 years as a Warmage, I choose a perk that lets him add half of his Intelligence value to Strength and Endurance rolls, to symbolize how he uses magic even in close quarters and to shield himself from incoming attacks. Maybe to reflect his experience as a mentor and his role as a high-ranking Sunreaver I also give him an event perk that boosts the rolls of all Blood Elves around him by +5 for the duration of a battle. And then finally as a third perk I add a "mana shield" or something that adds another hit point or two.
Stack that up against Kay's one perk for better armor or whatever, and Sin is quite CLEARLY playing in a different league with the bonuses he's got. So long as that extra power-level is well-motivated, which I feel it is in this instance, then I think this is the way to go in general. …I confess a bias though, since I am looking at this from the perspective of my own characters, and the frustration I felt with the system in GB.
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Post by lynneth on Jan 7, 2016 12:44:21 GMT 1
Sounding to me like we have a winner then  |
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Post by Maiyka on Jan 7, 2016 14:31:14 GMT 1
I think it is decided then! And Sin already did tons of work with this so it's going to be a copy paste xD But I'll write a little something together and explain it all, I'll have it posted up on the Guild Info section where you all can read about it.
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Post by Sinathael on Jan 10, 2016 18:29:44 GMT 1
Since the combat system is now up and running, I am closing this thread. If anyone's got any thoughts on the system at some point in the future, then it's better if you start a new one.
Thanks for the input, everyone!
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